In this episode of the Cyber PMM podcast, I interview Jordan Snapper, also known as Dr. Cyber, who is the CEO and Chief Content Surgeon of Doctor Cyber. We dive into the essential collaboration between product marketers and content marketers in cybersecurity.
Jordan shares his unique journey into the cyber world, the importance of understanding the product deeply, and the pivotal role of content in addressing cyber buyers' pain points.
The discussion covers practical tips, such as leveraging Reddit and podcasts for content intelligence, the significance of original research, and effective strategies for utilizing AI tools to scale content production.
Jordan also highlights the value of aligning product and content marketing from day one and offers insights into the landscape of cyber content marketing. This episode is packed with actionable advice for anyone looking to excel in cybersecurity marketing.
Interview chapters:
00:49 The Importance of Content in Cyber Marketing
05:05 Leveraging Reddit for Content Insights
07:45 AI Tools and Content Production
21:51 The Power of Original Research
32:29 Introduction to MCP and Medium
32:43 Exploring Substack and Technical Content
33:53 Content Distribution Channels: Reddit, YouTube, LinkedIn
35:26 The Importance of Owning Your Content
36:13 Maximizing Podcast Content
37:36 Creative Content Strategies and Industry Insights
46:22 Event Marketing and Content Generation
50:13 Effective Product Marketing and Use Cases
Transcript:
Interview with Jordan Snapper
[00:00:00] Hey everyone. Thanks for tuning into another episode of the Cyber PMM Podcast. The only show dedicated to helping cyber pmms fight digital chaos, cut through the hype and do more with less. Let's dive in.
Dane Disimino: Hey everyone. Welcome to today's podcast episode. I am joined by Jordan Snapper Today I'm excited to have him on as a guest. He is also known as Dr. Cyber. He is the CEO and chief content surgeon of Doctor Cyber, and he helps prescribe cybersecurity content treatment to cyber companies of all sizes.
Jordan, welcome to the podcast. Excited to have you here.
Jordan: Thank you so much, Dane. Appreciate it. It's awesome to be here.
Dane Disimino: Alright, so now why, why did I bring Jordan on? I, I invited Jordan. He gracefully accepted because I am digging into the topic of how product marketers can better align and work with other functions. And content [00:01:00] marketing is obviously one of the functions that we work with the most because at the end of the day, we have to produce content for our products.
And so that can, there's a science behind that. And so we need a prescription, Jordan, we need your help. Product marketers are in dire need of help because content is one of those things that it eats up a lot of time and energy. And sometimes it feels like we wasted time on certain pieces of content.
We don't always know where to start. Should we use a buyer's journey? Do we, you know, focus more on demos? Do we go to the thought leadership side? How do we stand out on social media? I mean, in the digital world, content is the name of the game, right? So but before we get into all that, more about you, maybe you can introduce yourself to the audience.
How did you first get into cyber and get to where you are today?
Jordan: Purely, purely by accident. It was during, it was during the time of COVID. [00:02:00] So you know, I was just laid off, funny enough, another company, which is also cyber, but around 2020, you know, pandemic hit. And then I was out of work for a little while, and then one day I got an offer from two different companies. One of them was the cybersecurity one that offered me a little bit more than the other one. And I said, okay.
Dane Disimino: I think.
Jordan: And you know, I've never, I've never looked back. It's an industry I love most. It's the people that I really love most working with. Just always something different happening. It is a service that is always needed.
It's a service that's growing. Now we're heading into the world, the field of AI and cps and all of that stuff. you know, threats are gonna continue to get even more sophisticated. And, you know, technologies have to be able to be out there to, you know, provide those, those lines of defense. My responsibility is to help those companies sell those products to help sort of make their messaging more clear, more transparent. I always hate I hate using buzzwords. It's one thing that Dr. Cyber hates really [00:03:00] try to put a a stop to, you know, buzzword iis as I, as I like to call it. And the most important thing at the end of the day is that you're out there helping the cyber buyers make their journeys a little bit more easier, a little smoother.
And you do that through, as you mentioned, different pieces of content going throughout the journey. Whether it's data sheets, whether it's thought leadership pieces, they all have to be addressing real pain points. And you have to speak to them as humans. I know it sounds forward, I know it sounds a little strange, but it really works. You need to be able to have that technical knowledge, the product knowledge, and, in content, I stress this so much, content marketers and cyber marketers in general, the most important thing they need to be learning from day one is product. if you don't have any understanding of the product. I really won't know what to sell, what type of integrations it goes with, you know, competitive, competitive advantages, the usps, and these are real selling points that help, you know, make your content [00:04:00] even even stronger and help, you know, convince the buyers.
Dane Disimino: So let's pick it up from there and then now we can start bridging that like product plus content dynamic that duo the tango, right? And you know, at smaller startups, maybe one person's doing both, right? Like I think most of the ca most of the time. But then when you get to the bigger organizations, you might have a con, like I, where I work, where's a content marketing team, right?
And we have to collaborate and find ways to work together. So I'd be curious to hear, I guess starting point maybe, how do you see that dynamic best playing out between good product marketing and then good content marketing coming together in a good symbiotic relationship.
Jordan: Day one, everything has to happen from day one, whether it's the content and product or the product teams, soon as, as either of them meet, it's gotta be from day one. And we, we both have to be aligned. We have to join sales later, but we have to [00:05:00] have a full and, and deep understanding of the product, what it offers, what it lacks.
A site that everybody can value and learn from is Reddit. 'cause that's where, that's where you're gonna learn about the, the really hard truth about whether, whether your product stacks up against the others or you know, what you're lacking. And these are valuable insights over there.
And you can take 'em away, you can start learning from them. I can actually build out entire content plans and funnels just from looking at Reddit. I'll give you a quick little hack on that.
Dane Disimino: Nice.
Jordan: into, yeah, so I'll just go into a subreddit, typically cybersecurity. There's also sys admin, a bunch of others that
Dane Disimino: Mm-hmm.
Jordan: A lot of members in the group. I'll go and sift through all the different, , topics. I'll look at what's hot and trending. I'll see which one has the highest up votes, but more specifically, I'm looking into the comments because the comments
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: are actually engaging.
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: important. And from there I'll look at the title. I'll look at the comments, the thread discussions. And from there i'll just take them and I'll build [00:06:00] out full pieces. Whether it's a thought leadership, I can put it onto LinkedIn, I can turn into a poll, into an engaging debate or finding a meme. Memes are huge, by the way.
They really work in cyber.
Dane Disimino: Wow. Now, if I did a poll right now of, of product marketers across cyber, and I said, how many of you are looking at Reddit? I think the percentage would be super low. Personally,
Jordan: Yeah.
Dane Disimino: know how many are, but it sounds like a really good tip because what you're saying is you have to know what the key problems that practitioners are facing in order to build content that brings them to the tools that they need to solve those problems.
Jordan: yep.
Dane Disimino: And so that's
Jordan: And
Dane Disimino: and trust
Jordan: yourself as sort of someone that's got, you know, credibility. Because if you don't know what they're talking about, then you're missing a lot of points over there. And this is not something you can pick up on another blog
Dane Disimino: I.
Jordan: page. You know, these are actual cyber buyers and a lot of 'em are using products. [00:07:00] These are actual users there because they're, you know, complaining about features that only they would know about. So it's not
Dane Disimino: Interesting.
Jordan: that they're reading somewhere in a guide or somewhere and you know, a LinkedIn post and no, they're actually users plus they're people that have product groups over there.
There's lots, there's tons of subreddits by the way. You know, you have them based on even tools and cyber tools. So like ranging from EDR and XDR, from Soar, from seam. Really any type of thing you can think of. And you'll think of all the big names and they're all being mentioned and talked about.
Dane Disimino: Interesting. So it's almost like you're, it's like content intelligence. You're just like, you're researching and what's going on under the surface and figuring out like what people are really saying.
Jordan: That's valuable.
Dane Disimino: Oh, ahead. Go ahead.
Jordan: No, no. Sorry. I was gonna say, so the other place I would stop and a place I would highly, highly recommend both product marketers and content marketers spend a lot of time is on podcasts,
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: you're gonna pick up a lot of deep insights told by people that you'd like to reach.
These are, these [00:08:00] are industry influencers and. I'll throw another quote out. First of all, I can build entire content plans just, just from a single podcast, I'll tell you how
Dane Disimino: Wow.
Jordan: that. Like, yeah, I'll take an episode, 45 minutes, you know, hopefully longer, longer the better. That means there's a lot of content there.
Dane Disimino: Yep.
Jordan: I'll take the entire, you know, transcript, I'll put it into, into like a Chad GPT and ask it to break it down into 20 different sub, like a, like a bunch of subtopics. From there, I've got 20 different pieces that I can turn into, let's say a poll, an infographic, a carousel, a video, a two minute product walk, like anything, and then and you build even more ideas and then you break it by your niche and you can, you can continually play around with it by asking smart questions and
Dane Disimino: Right. So are you, I mean, people are saying like ai, it's like such a time saver and productivity hack, but I've found with ai it's like now there's, it's limitless. The, the power and potential we have [00:09:00] that I'm almost like working more than ever you, because I don't know if you found that as well, because your, your capacity has expanded and, and there's like new tools and releases keep that, keep hitting and you have to know the models and like, and so how are you staying on top of things and knowing how to leverage AI for your content and what tools are you using?
Okay.
Jordan: Well, for me, I like, I like you know, GPTI know a lot of people talk about Claude and they, and they favor Gemini, but for me, I really like to have GPT, but that's me. everybody
Dane Disimino: Yep. Same here actually. Yep.
Jordan: You know, it works though. But again, it's, it's not about the type of a smart tool or type of AI tool you're using. It's about the questions you're asking. And the smarter and more technical and in depth you get, the better, you know, output you're gonna, you're gonna be receiving from there. You can sort of, you know, tweak it and you can, you know, play around with it. You can use it into lots. For me, one thing I love to do is analogies, if it's one thing you can go and, like, everybody can sort of, you know, relate to, like, let's say [00:10:00] how you, how you go build a car for instance.
And you can tweak that into like, Hey, how are you gonna go save your network security or cloud security? And you can really form some sort of analogy. I like to use quotes or movies that I, that I throw in there. And GPT makes it funny and that's big in cyber and that's something that, you know, people are just gonna go skim the article, right?
The average reader spends about, what, 40 seconds or so skimming through a 1300 word blog, right? I should know because I write these all day.
Dane Disimino: I, I have the same question. Like when I, I write these articles and sometimes I'm like, am I wasting my time here
Jordan: you're
Dane Disimino: because, okay. Why, why not
Jordan: why you're not, because
Dane Disimino: Dr. Siber? Give me a prescription here.
Jordan: Dr. Cyber will do so. So the most important thing with any blog or any piece of content and LinkedIn on a blog is the hook, right? I actually
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: I wrote about today is you have a few seconds to get someone's attention. We're not talking about someone skimming through a 1400 word [00:11:00] blog or a white paper. And hopefully you're gonna have visuals and graphs and strong data points that help, you know, support the topic and the subject and all of that. But if that hook, if those few words doesn't convince you, you can almost forget about someone scrolling down any further, and it starts there. You know, you have,
Dane Disimino: Got it
Jordan: have to go build a story out and you know, you have, you have to think in no way, okay, the person's seen how many different blogs on the, on, on the topic of EDR. Right?
Dane Disimino: right.
Jordan: it's like, I, I hate to say this, but sometimes when you're looking at definitions, it's literally a copy paste. You know, people, they're just, they're just afraid to open up with a quote or with a joke or with, you know, a strong, a strong data point. Or like, wouldn't, I, I, I never like to use any types of fear tactics or anything like that. It's not my style. But
Dane Disimino: Yep. Yeah,
Jordan: up with like, something that makes you think just so you're different, you know, just so you sort of invoke that that curiosity [00:12:00] element or that emotion, and that's what makes someone, you know, continue.
'cause at the end of the day, whether it's product, whether it's content, whether you're doing sales enablement, it's all about telling the story.
Dane Disimino: And would, would you say the most, I've said this before, but I've never really backed it with data. I think there has been reports on it. Is video still king when it comes to content in your opinion, or where do you land there?
Jordan: on LinkedIn. Especially on
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: and we're talking not about 15
Dane Disimino: I
Jordan: or 40 minutes. In fact, the, the, you know, human, human attention span is, you know, a couple of minutes.
Dane Disimino: Right.
Jordan: enough, you know, you know, TED Talks have a limit of 18 minutes. Most, most of the speakers never go over, never even come, come, come any way close to that because they know that they have so much to say and so little time to say it where you're gonna go and say, wait a second.
I actually remember what they said. And they have it down to a science. I actually wrote a whole post about that, about applying Ted talk to what you [00:13:00] do. Because if you can sum things up in a couple of minutes or in short video, product walkthrough or two minutes of a tip or 60 second explanation or summary of the entire blog, or more importantly, a wasted opportunity are glossary pages. You know, I
Dane Disimino: Interesting.
Jordan: people write more for like the whole Google, Google Crawl bots when they should be writing for humans.
Dane Disimino: Hmm. Right. Are Google crawl bots or the SEO aspect, is that gonna be replaced by chat GPTs and, and are buyers gonna be using that to find information
Jordan: getting replaced. I, there's, there's a, a, a lot of people now are leveraging AI tools like JGPT to do their SEO to do the searches you have, like ai, SEO now, which is a whole other level. It's a whole different territory. So
Dane Disimino: Yeah.
Jordan: are definitely starting their search and their journey there. typically when they're starting the funnel, let's say they wind up on a glossary page just to kick, things off. They wanna learn [00:14:00] about like an MCP or like a non-human identities. They wanna first have a basic, a basic definition. I'm not talking about a single paragraph. You know, you need to have something that's a little bit more fleshed out in depth. Add a video, add a technical diagram. These things are very valuable. You know lots of companies unfortunately, either don't have the time resources or they just. Feel it's something that's, that's not worth it.
But, you know, I, I feel they're, they're really big, missed opportunities.
Dane Disimino: And so they'll, maybe they'll get a summary of your product directly within the chat. I mean, I know I certainly will for searches. I'll do, I'll go into Cha CPT or wherever and start there. And then like, but is cha CPT still going through Google to get to the pages or do they go They have their own
Jordan: I think
Dane Disimino: method.
Jordan: own path, but at the end of the day, where else are they gonna crawl? else is
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: information on mostly,
Dane Disimino: so
Jordan: Yep.
Dane Disimino: yeah.
Jordan: I mean,
Dane Disimino: yeah, no, the[00:15:00]
Jordan: absolutely dominate search, so there's
Dane Disimino: right.
Jordan: yep.
Dane Disimino: Yeah, no, that's all, it's all hitting so fast and so it's so interesting where everything is headed. And then I guess a, after, say a buyer is in that interface and they get a summary, maybe they'll say like, alright, compare the top five vendors in,
Jordan: it.
Dane Disimino: you know to Arctic detection and response, whatever.
And they'll compare in a table maybe and say like, alright, compare on their speed of this and that, and they can just do a whole buyer research in, in these tools now.
Jordan: I would put, however, a very big caveat on that. I would say, you know, most times people are gonna do product, product reviews, and they're gonna make a very, very big mistake. And I'm talking about content and product marketing, writing. I'm not talking about the cyber buyer. Possibly they're
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: review sites when they should be spending time on Reddit, that's where their buyers are really giving genuine, unbiased, and unfiltered feedback.
Dane Disimino: Right. So they're doing validation in, [00:16:00] in Reddit with their peers. So it's like peer validation, right? Like, Hey, has anybody used, and somebody will say, yes, stay away. I mean, I, I just went down and boom, they're gone. Or
Jordan: yeah. Or that, or it could be on the opposite end of the spectrum. say that the, that the product is fantastic, but there is
Dane Disimino: right.
Jordan: know, support, there's no dedicated support and everything else is you know, a la car, right? Like everything costs extra.
You want that dedicated ae that's, that's an additional, you need to get a couple of extra seats. You need this, you need that. You know, so these things are also, these, these small little, little details that, let's say if your company and your product is fantastic and it's, you know, stacking up against other, other giants, but you offer those services, well, you've got a very big advantage over there.
Dane Disimino: Right. Okay. So on both ends of the spectrum, you can go down in these peer validation through Reddit. Are there any other places they're doing this instead of Reddit? Is it, I've heard is Discord [00:17:00] become, is Discord. Yep.
Jordan: Discords also very, very big channel MSPs especially.
Dane Disimino: MSPs are in there. Okay.
Jordan: Yep.
Dane Disimino: All right, so go back to your con
Jordan: and all of
Dane Disimino: Oh, slack.
Jordan: That, that's
Dane Disimino: Yep.
Jordan: and you can be sure CISOs are on there and they're most definitely talking about you. Hopefully good.
Dane Disimino: Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Jordan: that.
Dane Disimino: Okay. Well so then your, your process, 'cause you know. With, with these AI tools too, are you using any content production tools like that you've either built yourself or that you use, that you recommend for content production to speed the process up? Like, can you take
Jordan: Yeah,
Dane Disimino: article, right?
Say you write this 1500 word post, can you drop, is there ways to like drop that into certain tools and generate that, that waterfall of content now?
Jordan: There isn't, there isn't any, any, any question about that thing. You can pop it right back into GPT, [00:18:00] ask it to go, break it into several different sub, like into different sub subtopics, and you can turn 'em Okay. Like, like, like take this topic on EDR or like zero trust and go build out a, like a 32nd video intro. Go build out a quote. Quotes are also very, very much overlooked and I'll
Dane Disimino: Mm.
Jordan: why. I'll give you a little
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: there, is you're, when you're watching, let's say a demo or like when you're watching a, you know, a webinar or something like that and there's a speaker or there's a couple of speakers or sometimes a panel. They're actually giving you insights and they're using their own words. And again, you can, you can take that entire transcript, throw it, throw it into GPT, and you can see who said what. Now, let's say you go and pull that quote from, from someone like that's a big industry influencer in OT technology and zero trust. And that's a person that you want to have possibly as a, as a guest on a podcast or maybe to sort of interview later on or to sort of write a you know, a guest post or something. If you quote them [00:19:00] and link them back into your article. Now you're, now you're taking a quote from a webinar, which means to them that you've taken the time watch, to watch the webinar.
It shows that, that you care, that you have vetted interests. And they, they actually do, you know, appreciate that. you've attributed that quote back to them, it's also unique. You can highlight it, you can offer it to put 'em as like a graph or something on LinkedIn and visualize it further on Twitter.
It's very big and Reddit would be nice. And you're just further taking one small little chunk of content and, you know, doing a lot with it.
Dane Disimino: So the quote is of the speaker on the webinar. You mean some and you mentioned them and
Jordan: That's it. Because, because they're also giving you unique insights that you're not gonna really find on the other blogs around the similar topic because it's coming directly from them.
Dane Disimino: Right, so it wasn't ever in written form really on the web. It's only their verbal expression and you're like, Hey, I [00:20:00] heard what you said there.
Jordan: Yep. And all you gotta do, all you gotta do right there is wrap a pair of, you know, quotation marks around it. That's it.
Dane Disimino: Right? Yeah.
Jordan: And the link to their LinkedIn or,
Dane Disimino: link back and mention them so that they're aware.
Jordan: That's
Dane Disimino: Very interesting.
Jordan: Of course. You know, on social
Dane Disimino: And tag them. Yeah.
Jordan: Yep,
Dane Disimino: Yeah. I, I was listening to a podcast yesterday. Do you listen to the marketing Millennials by chance?
Jordan: know
Dane Disimino: Yeah. They have this pod and he runs it. But he had this tactic he was talking about like when you're looking to interview, like we're doing right.
And I, I tried it yesterday. He was like, you start with like calling all, and you put in your target and then you kind of talk about what you, and then you ask them to tag a friend that might want it. And I, I didn't get one engagement doing that yesterday, so I, I'm embarrassed to say it did not work at all for me.
So sometimes, you know, I try, there's so many different things that you can do and try, but it seems to me [00:21:00] like everybody's still kind of figure, there's things are changing so fast that it's like there's really no guarantees with content is there, it's like, it depends on the timing. You have to really capture a certain topic at the right time.
You have to almost have like a knack for it. It's more, it's like art and science, isn't it? So, you know, if there was an exact science, you could just, like, you would publish your book and people can just take that and implement it. But do you find that when you engage with your different clients, that it's like bespoke and like a different formula, a different prescription that you're giving out?
Or is it the same each time? Like how are you?
Jordan: In
Dane Disimino: don't know.
Jordan: and I write in different I use different things. You'll never really catch me writing the same thing twice. Data, data points, oh, I'll tell you one thing. If you want gold, and I say this and I beg all of my clients, especially if, if they wanna, write a white paper, since you're a product guy, I'm sure you understand this. I
Dane Disimino: [00:22:00] Yep.
Jordan: can you actually give me security research or unique company data? They say, no. I tell them I can't, I can't help you on a white paper. It's gonna be a waste of time because you're not really offering anything new or anything unique. And unfortunately, a lot of times is I have to go attribute a data source to one of the direct competitors. you
Dane Disimino: Because they didn't have original research. So you're saying an original research almost works every time? Like,
Jordan: can, I'll give you the best example on that is Wiz. I mean, you can see what they did recently in that whole you know, deep seek thing. They had, they had someone on their, on their, on their security research team go in actually hacked the, you know, himself, he found and
Dane Disimino: oh, that's right.
Jordan: and you know, the end result was not only were they able to get all of the, you know, attribution to them and they were ranking for that, which by the way, I believe if you go type in deep seek, you'll see Wiz there and above Wiz is Forbes.
And guess who they cite throughout the article?
Dane Disimino: We.
Jordan: That's it.[00:23:00]
Dane Disimino: Because they successfully, this was in, I remember this, this was Jan, it was nuts. It was in January
Jordan: that's
Dane Disimino: and all of a sudden everybody gets out of the holidays and it was like, deep seek comes out of nowhere.
Jordan: That's
Dane Disimino: then, and, and it was like, NVIDIA's stock was cra Remember everybody here listening is probably having you know, flashbacks.
But it's like, I remember that distinctly. And then I remember wi that story emerged. It was like, well, hold, hold on. It was like, all right, everybody, hold on. And it was Wiz that proved there was this deep risk and vulnerability is aligned to this model, which was basically it was pumping out all this like dangerous stuff that was, there was no filter.
Right.
Jordan: That's it.
That's smart. SEO. That's SEO,
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: the security research, you've got everything working there, and it's stuff that's unique, it's fresh, it's different, and you know, you'll be getting a lot of earned and free PR that way. [00:24:00] Yep.
Dane Disimino: Okay. I mean, Wiz, honestly, they were, they're only like five years old and they, I, I saw they were bought by Google for like 32 billion. That was just this year, wasn't it?
Jordan: yep.
Dane Disimino: So,
Jordan: couple of months ago.
Dane Disimino: Yeah. Very interesting path that they took. So, but you, I, I like what you were saying about this whole original research, like, finding your own research right.
Jordan: the most important thing. It is the actual point, point differentiator. Cato is phenomenal at this. They do, I believe a control threat, a threat report. And, you know, Pantera has this, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Zscaler has excellent, excellent reports and they really invest the time in this.
And it shows. you have all of this data, you know, you can do anything you want with it. And then you have, you know, a ton of fresh content that's gonna help everybody there. It's gonna help, you know, accentuate the pain points. It's gonna help you and I market their products better with, [00:25:00] with, with actual data to go and back everything up. So everything is not just turning into a single pane of, of glass or into something that's cutting edge or, you know, ground groundbreaking. This is actual data, so it's very valuable.
Dane Disimino: So that, yeah. And you know, shameless plug, like working for Splunk, we had the state of security report that recently came out and
Jordan: is really
Dane Disimino: was fortunate to be. Cool. Thank you. And I, I, I can't take any, I mean, I take some credit 'cause I, I contributed something, but there's a team that did an amazing job and I saw them in action, but it's not a quick process by any stretch there.
It takes, you know, you can't just, you know, and it, it's one thing I want to clarify because you can go into deep research and say like, pump out a research report and find everything you can that's existing on the web pretty quickly. Right.
Jordan: yep.
Dane Disimino: It could even search Reddit. I think now they have an agree. I think you can.
So I [00:26:00] mean, but that's all data that is already on the web.
Jordan: Correct.
Dane Disimino: what your, your point is like this original fresh research needs to be kind of your emphasis because, or else everybody can kind of do it. So
Jordan: yourself from the others? Most definitely from a
Dane Disimino: I.
Jordan: product side, you know, if the sales has to be, you know, dynamite, great. But I mean, you know, the rest of us, we have to have stuff that we can put into that funnel, right? Like, you know, we can't just put out a blog without putting data.
I'm very heavy on that. It's very important, when you're writing something, you, you know, you have a graph, you have charts, you have actual threat intel and research that's not, that's not really open source because a lot of the things that are coming out of open source can be sometimes, you know, inaccurate you know, slightly, I wouldn't want to use the term misleading, but it's not factually correct sometimes, you know, but you're actually putting out internal security research, well that's coming [00:27:00] from, from you and only you know what, what's, what's what your customers are going through or, you know, different types of attack factors. You can do that and you should be doing that. even as you mentioned, it takes time. That time is well worth the effort. Again, go look at Wiz
Dane Disimino: And do you break down your content? Like when you're, do you target a persona, be your audience, se do you define all that before you build? Okay.
Jordan: I can't, I can't write 'cause I don't know who I'm, who I'm speaking to
Dane Disimino: Thank you. You heard it. Everybody listen to that. That's the key. I think there's So go ahead.
Jordan: no, I'm sorry. And the other thing is, it's not always the ciso, people think it's ciso, it's not. I promise you, they're not the users. It's gonna be the SOC analyst, it's gonna be IM managers, it's gonna be DevOps or GRC. These are your users. So, know start, start the conversations with them. And that happens on LinkedIn. something else I like to say is, you know, a [00:28:00] little another little hack I'll throw out there for you. I like to use something called the you know, reverse Facebook engineering effect. Zuckerberg is a, is a much, much better marketer than, than, than people give him credit for, right? Because when, when Facebook came out, connect U was there already and they already had all the Ivy Leagues, they had Harvard, Yale, all, all the big names, he could have said, okay, I get it, I'm out.
But instead, what he did was he built around them. So he built, he took all the smaller universities and all the other surrounding ones, and by default, the larger ones had to, had to fall through. like to use this type of an analogy with the CISO because you're not gonna get to the CSO directly. You're gonna go through their team, So you may as well start building out those relationships and understanding their, their pain points, because they're your end users. They're the ones who are gonna be actively using your product. And if they're happy and if they like what you have to offer, most importantly, if they like you, guess who's gonna know about it?
Dane Disimino: It is gonna go, [00:29:00] yeah, up. Right.
Jordan: That's
Dane Disimino: That's a great analogy. It's I don't know what the term is for that strategy, but you should create one.
Jordan: Reverse the reverse Facebook.
Dane Disimino: did say it.
Jordan: effect. Yeah,
Dane Disimino: There it is. The reverse Facebook CSO engineering effect. Remember that one?
Jordan: Yep,
Dane Disimino: I love it. I love it. And it's, I mean, it's so true though, like the whole audience perspective, if you don't have a starting point with defining who, who is it that you're speaking to?
And I'll say like, I think most content and product marketers do this earlier in their career. 'cause we're just starting out and we don't really know.
Jordan: yep.
Dane Disimino: just like, let me just build a presentation and, and you're sitting there and you're building, but then at the end of it, you maybe you give it or you hand it off and you completely missed the mark.
'cause you're talking to a, when you should be talking to D or whatever. And I think that was probably one of the more painful lessons I ever learned was like starting with the audience first.
Jordan: That's it. Because if you dunno who you're writing to, don't have much to say.
Dane Disimino: [00:30:00] Right. Or much to say that they care about
Jordan: Yeah.
Dane Disimino: that you're saying. Yeah. Now. In terms of channels, you know, you talked, you said LinkedIn a few times, obviously Reddit. And are there any other places that you know, 'cause that, that's the thing is you have, I mean you have X, you have Instagram, you have YouTube, you have LinkedIn,
Jordan: Discord, slack,
Dane Disimino: discord, slack is there.
How do you get one piece of content across all these different cha? Because even these channels have requirements, like X has a character limit, YouTube has to be a landscape video, unless it's a YouTube short, and then it's gotta be the, it's madness, right? Like, so you can spend an hour formatting a single piece of content for all these platforms, or maybe even more so like, is that a limiter, like the limiting factor still is.
Is that why, I guess social media or content marketers are gonna have jobs [00:31:00] for a while because you still have to have somebody Actually, I. Formatting and posting all the, the content.
Jordan: And thinking, and thinking creatively and thinking on different ways and how to, how to reformat content. Right. You're not gonna take that because I think a very big mistake is, let's say a social media manager will take that blog and more or less copy paste it throughout every single medium. But you have channels where it's different.
Like on Reddit, meme, memes are huge and people do not like, you know any, anything, any, anything that's false or anything like that, you'll be thrown out very quickly. You are certainly not gonna go and, you know, spam them and self and self-promote. You'll be, you'll be kicked out fast. If you can click on that refresh button and that's
Dane Disimino: That's a great point.
Jordan: Yeah. And
Dane Disimino: So Reddit, Reddit, memes, and then what else? Like,
Jordan: Medium is
Dane Disimino: it
Jordan: platform.
Dane Disimino: medium. Isn't that like a a, a,
Jordan: It's
Dane Disimino: like a news site? A blog?
Jordan: Yep. Yep.
Dane Disimino: Yeah.
Jordan: yep. Created [00:32:00] by the, by the guys of Twitter.
Dane Disimino: Oh, was it? I didn't know that.
Jordan: The founders of Twitter. Yep.
Dane Disimino: And what do you mean you can actually post a medium on your own directly?
Jordan: there. Yeah. You can put links, you can put images, everything. In fact, I think I read an excellent article on was it MCP that the original
Dane Disimino: Mm-hmm.
Jordan: was, was attributed to Guy and Medium.
Dane Disimino: Really?
Jordan: Yes. And he had
Dane Disimino: So MCP
Jordan: use that, that same image. And they cite the source and it goes back to his medium page. And if he's smart, he adds his links. And I'm sure he has everything in a website. And you can imagine he's getting
Dane Disimino: now. All right. So he, you mean he first published this idea for MCP
Jordan: Medium. Yeah.
Dane Disimino: Interesting.
Jordan: Yep.
Dane Disimino: about Substack? What's your take on Substack?
Jordan: place, but you, but you, but you have to come with a lot of technical knowledge.
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: You really have
Dane Disimino: Yeah.
Jordan: side. I wouldn't go there and start with the memes or anything like that. I mean, it's more of
Dane Disimino: Right,
Jordan: you know, technical place.[00:33:00]
Dane Disimino: right. So Reddit, memes, substack, long form technical.
Jordan: More like more like technical explanations or guides or like, you know, QAs, but more on the technical side, I guess. Sure. To the point
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: I, I, I guess you can, you can consider it more like a more technical version of Quora, if that makes sense.
Dane Disimino: Okay. Medium. You would put in the research publishing, research,
Jordan: I put it more sort of as like a, another blogging channel. Like a,
Dane Disimino: blogging. Okay.
Jordan: blogging channel. Yeah. But, but I think they get about a couple, like 30, 40 million plus plus views, monthly views. So it's, it's pretty good.
Dane Disimino: Okay. YouTube, obviously video can't do much else there.
Jordan: That's it.
Dane Disimino: but
Jordan: Shorts, you could do
Dane Disimino: shorts.
Jordan: and those are great. Those work well in cyber, by the way.
Dane Disimino: Do they, so Instagram reels for cyber, are companies doing that?
Jordan: I would yeah, I think they are, but I think mostly the [00:34:00] real value, if you asked me to pick the the top three channels would be Reddit, YouTube, and LinkedIn. X is up there as well.
But those three, again, you know, it depends on the piece of content, depends how you wanna go it, you know, distribute.
Dane Disimino: I,
Jordan: if you have attribution funnels, if you're running paid ads or anything like that, then you know all, it really all depends.
Dane Disimino: and but to your point, you're gonna put different content formats across Reddit, YouTube, and Link and LinkedIn. Right? But it might, would you have the same? And don't be afraid to experiment, but the source you'll have. Would your source material always be a certain type? Like are you always gonna start with a written article on your own website or a blog on your own website?
Jordan: Not at all. In, in fact, most times I start on like LinkedIn if the, and if the Post is interesting enough or I see a lot of, you know, engagement on it, then I might
Dane Disimino: Then you'll,
Jordan: Yep,
Dane Disimino: wow, okay. I've been getting that wrong for years.[00:35:00]
Jordan: Me too. Trust
Dane Disimino: No, it's always,
Jordan: you.
Dane Disimino: it's always good to learn because, you know, and that's why I like doing this stuff. And all right, so what else, what else did we miss? We hit, I feel like we're missing Oh, podcasts. Okay. Right. And that's where you, where are you gonna share those mostly? 'cause I think that was a struggle for me is like, where do I publish these?
And there are multiple places, right. You, because you could do the video on YouTube, which is what I start with, but I also make sure my own website can carry it just in case. You never know. Like, these platforms can disappear. You never know.
Jordan: Of course
Dane Disimino: So I'm always cautious about,
Jordan: have to own your own assets. That goes
Dane Disimino: right. Okay.
Jordan: it's you, it's all you. And
Dane Disimino: I.
Jordan: you know, you want to, you know, distribute it through other channels, fine. But you always have to own your assets before any other platforms do, because as you mentioned in a split second, algorithms can tell you, well, yeah, we just don't wanna show it anymore.
You're not paying us, we're not gonna show it.[00:36:00]
Dane Disimino: Right. It's too much of a risk.
Jordan: a risk. And you, and you as the actual content owner, you don't have, you know, over it. And that's,
Dane Disimino: Correct. Yep. Where else can you publish PO podcasts? I think Spotify and Apple.
Jordan: And you can take a podcast and break it into content form. You can take the the actual transcript. GPT or Claude or anywhere else, and get a ton of different short, short form posts. You can get x posts from something, a single podcast episode. You can build yourself an entire queue of content just from one episode, by the way.
Dane Disimino: All right. Why don't we should do an experiment with this episode. I'm gonna take you up on that. I'm gonna, and I'll share the results in the in the comments and we'll see how it goes.
Jordan: You can just start
Dane Disimino: Now
Jordan: Reddit little Reddit hack and talk about the Facebook reverse engineering effect. You've got two separate posts right there.
Dane Disimino: boom.
Jordan: That's it.
Dane Disimino: We're we're the face. Yeah. There's so much to, to publish around that. That's the other problem is [00:37:00] bandwidth, right? Like who has,
Jordan: Yeah.
Dane Disimino: you know, 'cause 'cause you can, it's bandwidth, isn't it? And that's,
Jordan: it. But,
Dane Disimino: that's where I think like, building teams is still, like, it's still, people are still hiring to do this.
Like I, I saw Gary V is big, you know, he had this whole thing around like, how do you scale, how do you grow? And he was like, hire, right? I mean it's, hiring isn't dead like people are, it's not all ai. 'cause you still need somebody to run it through the AI and publish it and do all those things, right.
Jordan: someone who's gonna go think someone who's gonna go think differently, right? You need someone who's just gonna think creatively. So when someone says like, where do I get ideas from? You know, I think a big mistake with marketers in general, not just cyber and marketers, is that marketers follow marketers
Dane Disimino: Mm-hmm.
Jordan: should be doing, what I always say to do is, look outside of your industry.
Like, if I'm marketing, I wanna see what, what, like, you know, finance, people have to say AI people, real estate people, small business owners, you know, name 'em, name the industries, because they're, [00:38:00] they've got a ton of content, a ton of value. Or Amazon resellers, by the way. And you know how I know they know what they're talking about?
Because whatever they write has to make them money. That's literally what they, what they do. They're selling stuff. They understand how to write this very well.
Dane Disimino: They have to get it right. Right?
Jordan: yeah,
Dane Disimino: Yeah. Yeah.
Jordan: you know, but,
Dane Disimino: Now,
Jordan: they have so
Dane Disimino: yeah.
Jordan: there, and what I do is like, you can flip 'em and the more creative that you think you can turn so many different things that they talk about and merge it into cyber. while back when I just started working on LinkedIn and I was, you know, just starting out there, I wrote something called the Costco Guide for LinkedIn success.
Dane Disimino: Oco, how does that fit in?
Jordan: I just use, you know, analogies of like, bulk, bulk writing, and I use a lot of different things about having your favorite product, like, or just being, you know, experimenting. And that's what Costco does, but they have everything down to a [00:39:00] science. In other words, the whole, the whole warehouse is shaped to look like a maze on purpose. You have to go explore and when you explore one, one content topic, you have to go lead to a few others. Right? That's the whole purpose of like a Wikipedia. You go straight down, you can be on a single Wikipedia page and stay on that site for five hours.
Dane Disimino: Yeah, especially if you're like me and you have to keep digging and, and, and understanding.
Jordan: yeah,
Dane Disimino: whoa, whoa, whoa. Costco, hold on. I got lost in Costco once and I remember not lost. I, I, somebody stole. Oh, I not, I remember I, my car, I turned around, I went down an aisle, I turned around, my cart was gone.
Somebody started pushing my cart and no, nobody, I, I was asking the manager 'cause I just did a full loop
Jordan: Yeah.
Dane Disimino: cart was full, which took like an hour and a half and somebody, it was a disaster. But to your point
Jordan: that's,
Dane Disimino: was I half of the stuff in there, I didn't enter Costco to buy there.
Jordan: That's it.[00:40:00]
Dane Disimino: Not at all. And that my wife and I go in there, forget it.
It's like, you know, you could walk out with two carts sometimes. It's crazy.
Jordan: and they know that, that, that you're gonna do this because they've got everything down to science. I've actually got a book called the, called The Joy of Costco, and it's
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: you know, unbelievable stuff in there. Highly suggested. It's a very, very fun read. And I like to apply a lot of that stuff, like into, into the world of cyber.
I mean, who, who would think that Amazon has like a, I'm just using Amazon for a second, and they have like, you know, a one click and now they've got, if I'm not mistaken, like an hour delivery. Am I, am I there? Like, you know, one hour delivery, right?
Dane Disimino: Something like that. Yeah.
Jordan: Could you actually process logistics behind that one hour delivery? That's something that, you know, just that, forget what you're ordering, that just the logistics behind it. If something is off by a millisecond, you're not gonna get your product [00:41:00] with the hour.
Dane Disimino: I mean that's, that's why their, their stock has been,
Jordan: why they're Amazon.
Dane Disimino: not, that's why they're Amazon. Right.
Jordan: But if we use that type of terms and thinking and analogy and apply it to cybersecurity or what we're selling, it's different. Who's doing this? You know, I, that's how far out. I like to think, I like to
Dane Disimino: Yeah.
Jordan: with Costco, with Amazon, because these companies, these, you know, entities have everything down to a science,
Dane Disimino: Right. Yeah. With teams and teams of like researchers and PhDs behind the scenes and people figuring things out. So it is wise to like
Jordan: Yeah.
Dane Disimino: those big players
Jordan: you have entire teams. Teams mind you, not just a, not, not a person testing out or like someone doing AB tests. You have data researchers and scientists that are playing around with the different pixels on a CTA button.[00:42:00]
Dane Disimino: right.
Jordan: That's
Dane Disimino: To under so they understand. What do you mean by that? Like the, the pi. How would the pixels on the CTA apply?
Jordan: that would actually apply to, you know, emotions on whether you're
Dane Disimino: Oh,
Jordan: or whether you're
Dane Disimino: oh. The colors of the buttons are influencing buyer behavior and they have that. Oh, wow.
Jordan: They've got that to a science and they know that that's worth it for them to invest because you need to click and just add credit card details.
Right. So they'll, they'll pay a lot of money for that if it means putting it a shade of orange different, you can be certain they're gonna be testing it and they don't just run a ab tests over there. You can't even think of the level of testing that goes on in Amazon. And I say, why can't we use that type of testing in cybersecurity? At least get things more, more down to a science,
Dane Disimino: Right.
Jordan: with
Dane Disimino: Yeah.
Jordan: the colors or with the ux, the ui. Stuff, right? We have a
Dane Disimino: Yeah.
Jordan: we can test on the product side, the
Dane Disimino: Yeah.
Jordan: which almost [00:43:00] all of them look, look, look similar, know, someone once asked me like, okay, what is cyber? What do you sell?
I said, I can break it down into three words. Scanners, dashboards, and policies. Right? That's it.
Dane Disimino: I mean, at some level for sure. That's like the spectrum.
Jordan: it. You either fall into one, both, or really everything. Now, my, now my question is, and for us, for content and product, and why is your product different, you know, than everyone else's? How is that
Dane Disimino: Well,
Jordan: better?
Dane Disimino: it's AI powered,
Jordan: Yeah. It's that ai, AI powered single, single pane of glass that every single investor
Dane Disimino: right.
Jordan: They love, they love the words AI powered like ML and ai, even though it's,
Dane Disimino: Do you think here's a take so that we're cutting into cyber as an industry, which I love love hate, but is the, I saw [00:44:00] this post today. It was like never been a better time to start a business in cyber. And I, but then I saw another one. It was like, these are hard times for. You know, there's like, I, I don't know which to believe, but the one guy seemed to know what he was talking.
I forget. I would, I would mention who he is. I just can't remember. It was somebody in my network. But he said,
Jordan: Mm-hmm.
Dane Disimino: you know, I five years ago I started this consultancy just on a whim. I had no idea what I was doing. And then, and then he said a year and a half later, it was, I was bought, I was acquired for like, you know, millions of dollars or whatever.
And it was like, he was like, and here's my recommendation. He, he recommended what to do, but he said, it's never been a better time to start. A business in, in cyber and things like that. And I'm wondering what's your take like,
Jordan: Sure.
Dane Disimino: see this with vibe coding too, where a lot of, you know, let's just say marketers, right?
All of a sudden now marketers can build products and
Jordan: Yeah,
Dane Disimino: Desi design graphic designers, instead of just going in Figma, they can be like, wait, why am I gonna go hire an [00:45:00] engineer? I can just, I can build this now. Right? I mean, but then, you know, I have a friend who's an engineer and I, I told him that, he's like, yeah, but a lot of those tools are only good for like prototypes.
You can, you can build like a visual, but the backend and all, like, you're still gonna need, like,
Jordan: you,
Dane Disimino: know?
Jordan: gonna need a person that's, that's that human in the loop. Definitely. For
Dane Disimino: Right.
Jordan: the, for the you know, foreseeable future. You need someone to have that oversight you have a lot of bias. You have a lot of other, other issues with these, with these AI tools and with
Dane Disimino: Yep.
Jordan: there's a lot of room for inaccuracy, for bias, for everything else and in cyber for attacks.
Dane Disimino: Attacks. That's the big thing, right? It's like opening up the floodgates. Right now everybody's launching an app. I mean,
Jordan: You know,
Dane Disimino: but they never,
Jordan: company today, right? I can name at least a dozen off the top of my head, and that's
Dane Disimino: yeah.
Jordan: That's something that, that didn't exist, you know, three years ago wasn't even it.
Dane Disimino: Oh, I know it. Yeah. I was at the RSA [00:46:00] conference. That was the most used messaging this year was for ai,
Jordan: Everything
Dane Disimino: so,
Jordan: ai this, AI that. And then at some point it's like, okay, talk to me about something that's different. You know, otherwise every single keynote sounds exactly. Oh, here's another hack for you where I get a lot of content ideas for, for writing out pieces. And since you mentioned R RSAs, I go on the RSA site,
Dane Disimino: yep. Yep.
Jordan: and I look at the keynotes.
I wanna see you speaking, you know, typically they're gonna be industry influencers, or if not, there's still gonna be people that I'd love to talk to and people that might be, you know, potential buyers of mine Someday. I'll look at the topics, I'll look, I'll, I'll look and see what they're, what they're gonna be discussing.
RSA is good. Black hat is phenomenal for this. I love their titles. And I'll look at the title, look at the speakers, and I'm gonna write a thought leadership post around that topic. what I'll do is I'll publish that on LinkedIn. I'll tag the speakers this way. If I'm going to RSA or [00:47:00] Black Hat, we've already got something in common.
Dane Disimino: So that, oh, you did that before you go? Not after.
Jordan: not after, but you can do it after. You can sort of summarize what they said and see, this is something I feel a lot of companies miss or they don't do right, is to do event summary takeaways. lots of times I'll say, yeah, it was great. The booths were this, it was fun, but that's missed opportunities. about feedback that you got from customers? What about, you know potential partners, the challenges they were facing, how you're solving them? If you, if you did go into any of these keynote sessions, what did you take away from it? And you can break it into your own language and that's a very, very valuable, that's something that also reaches the entire spectrum over there.
Dane Disimino: Absolutely. My current, actually I'm, my next article for Cyber PMM M is gonna be about events and event marketing, because I've found. Increasingly [00:48:00] product marketers are becoming much more involved with events. Over the past, like 12 years I've been doing this, it just feels like events have, and, and part of that is CMO budgets are being more applied to events because it's like clear, you know, when the date is, you know what to expect.
The ROI is a little bit more calculated and and the, the whole company can rally around an event and you show up and like it's tangible and it's clear cut. But to your point, like when you're there and like, you know, the, the, the ways that you can use events to generate content shouldn't be underestimated, right?
Jordan: it should be. It should be, you know, embraced. You should
Dane Disimino: Mm-hmm.
Jordan: over there to write about these pieces and write 'em in your words. This is what can get published potentially in Forbes or any of these places afternoon. A lot of other sites and you know, you can actually stand out as someone more of a, as a credible, authoritative figure just by writing about a topic.
Okay. You have AI agents, [00:49:00] but how does that apply to, let's say, zero Trust? How does that go into soar? How does that go into all these different places? And that helps you sell your product. It helps show that you know what you're talking about. You've got that unique insight as we spoke about like the security research, but these are your own words. is valuable, and that's stuff that I think they should go and embrace a lot more. else interesting.
Dane Disimino: Where are you sending people on LinkedIn? The most do you find is, like where, 'cause I, there's this thing where like going off the platform, LinkedIn actually has like a gate. They're like, alright, be aware you're leaving LinkedIn. And it's
Jordan: Well, they
Dane Disimino: so
Jordan: you to leave, leave the platform.
Dane Disimino: Right.
Jordan: LinkedIn. LinkedIn, right. You can
Dane Disimino: Yeah, exactly. It feels almost sometimes like a prison, right? You're like, what? How do I get outta here?
Jordan: So my take on that is if you're writing a thought leadership piece, don't be salesy. Just write about the topic and keep it on LinkedIn. know, add, add, add a nice [00:50:00] image or, or more, you know, something else that'll take you a second. Just add a good image of yourself sitting at a desk or so, because it's real, you know, it's real and genuine. Do not use AI images, and I can't stand that.
Dane Disimino: So let me hit you with one question on product. So what's the most valuable type of content a product marketer can produce for our products?
Jordan: If we're talking just from us or we're talking like in general or
Dane Disimino: I know it kind of depends on, so you would say it depends on the the audience or the persona, your targeting, right?
Jordan: yeah.
Dane Disimino: I guess so
Jordan: yeah.
Dane Disimino: let's just say, let's just say you're a, a, B2B SaaS or software vendor in cyber,
Jordan: Yep.
Dane Disimino: And you're targeting security analysts.
Jordan: Then
Dane Disimino: Like what type of content?
Jordan: Very simple. Really, really across the board. Put yourself in their shoes. You know, if you're a
Dane Disimino: Mm-hmm.
Jordan: analyst, what would you wanna read? What's something that that would make you say, I wanna learn more, more about these guys.
Dane Disimino: It would have to be [00:51:00] use case related to their actual day to day. Right? Like
Jordan: That's it.
Dane Disimino: Well, that's the question I have for you is like, do you start with the use case and then lead to how your product solves it, or do you start with, you know, your product first?
Right.
Jordan: case first. Always the use case,
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: you wanna talk about the actual pain point before you can provide a solution.
Dane Disimino: Okay.
Jordan: or the egg. But here you have to have a you know, actual pain point. I'll give you a good example. Nhis, non non, non-human identities. What,
Dane Disimino: Mm-hmm.
Jordan: of the major use cases, which funny enough, blends into the world of zero trust and microsegmentation, if we go in that direction, is into the field of m and as. Because you have identities, you have access floating everywhere. You have non, you have both human and non-human identities everywhere, and that's in one organization. Now, think about if it's multiple organizations combined, who's in charge, who has, you know, who has all these different accesses, [00:52:00] know, controls, permissions, cetera.
All these different cloud environments, orphaned accounts and everything. But this ties directly in to. That's definitely a very strong use case. And from there you can sort of take it and discuss the different risks, the challenges, I think the flows of the vlogs are typically the same in that aspect. I mean, you know, the actual structure more or less, you know, if we're going at the top or mid or mid funnel, we're, we're, we're sort of talking about the challenges and all of that. If you're a startup, you're gonna have to put them into a demo at the end, unless you've got a gated piece, like a white paper. And to get that white paper again, and I just spoke to a, a new, a new, you know, client the other day.
They said, okay, we, we want, you know, we wanna do a white paper. Here's a topic. I said, can you give me something unique? I make you think first before. And I say, imagine that you are that user on the other side, right? Like you're, that ICP, like you're that analyst or that research or whatever. [00:53:00] Why would you want to click and download a white paper?
You know, forget about how much budget you're spending and how you go, you know, distribute that asset. What's going to make you dane, what's gonna make you click on it? Or more importantly, what's gonna make you read it? You can go and click on it and say, yeah, you know, this sucks. I, it could have been a blog that I, you know, I could have read anywhere else. wasted about, you know, five, five or like 10 minutes of my time. And if we're talking about a cso, they definitely don't have five or 10 minutes.
Dane Disimino: No. And they'll never click again.
Jordan: No, no.
Dane Disimino: You lost them for forever.
Jordan: and that's it. You lost them forever. And remember, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
Dane Disimino: No,
Jordan: Definitely
Dane Disimino: that's why it's better to be patient with the these
Jordan: Yeah.
Dane Disimino: right publishing processes.
Jordan: And you've got that security piece, you can flip it into a million [00:54:00] different things, right? Because you've, you've got the data to play with, so you can do really anything you like. You can make a
Dane Disimino: Yep.
Jordan: feed, you can go and, you know, revamp sales, sales decks, battle, battle cards, everything, and blogs, different
Dane Disimino: Yep.
Jordan: forms, videos.
Then you can go and gate them because then it's research that's not available out there.
Dane Disimino: Wow. I mean, yeah. I, I feel like we can keep going for another hour here. Jordan, I'm you know, I, I, this is a great topic. I love talking content and I've learned a ton. But we are coming up to time. I wanna be respectful of your time, and I I do wanna give you the chance to ask anything of the audience or maybe how can they find, learn more about you and what you do, or are they open to follow you on LinkedIn, stuff like that.
Jordan: Absolutely, by all means, you can find me on LinkedIn. You can either look for me, I'm, I'm Jordan Snapper, or you can follow, I've got a company page, which, which I've gotta flesh out with some more content, which is coming up called
Dane Disimino: Okay? Okay.
Jordan: Media. That's my LinkedIn [00:55:00] page. And I'm very active on LinkedIn.
In fact, I've got a very, very good meme scheduled tomorrow, tomorrow morning, which everyone will like. It's those
Dane Disimino: All right.
Jordan: are great and yeah, lots of people to follow. So I'll just throw out some names out there if anybody wants to get oh by, oh, something we didn't talk about and I'll wrap this up in 30 seconds.
You want to
Dane Disimino: Yeah.
Jordan: another phenomenal place to get content ideas where, where again, you can go and build out entire plans, newsletters.
Dane Disimino: Oh right.
Jordan: LinkedIn newsletters, and I'll give you some of the best names. I've actually got lists, so you by all means, after this, you know, feel free, reach out to me, I'll, I'll send 'em to you.
A lot of 'em are friends of mine. They're amazing people. They're also a few off the top of my head. Danny, Danny Wolf is a is, is a top name. Ross. Ross Haluk, I hope I said his name right. the author of startup Builder Builders. Startup, startup for builders. I, I hope I said that right.
A guy named pve. [00:56:00] Mike. Mike prevet. He, he runs a newsletter called Return on Security. Phenomenal. I mean, these are, these are some of the best. Richard Stein, make
Dane Disimino: Mm-hmm.
Jordan: the name right. I'm sure you
Dane Disimino: That one is Steen. Actually, I learned that 'cause he was a guest on this podcast last year and he corrected me on that.
Jordan: Thein. There you go. See, I learned something new now. So,
Dane Disimino: There you go.
Jordan: There's him, there's another one. His name is Francis. Francis Odom. And this guy talks software and he's very, very technical. You can pick up so much here. What else can you do is you can look at their topics and headlines and you can flip 'em into LinkedIn posts. By the way, tons of them
Dane Disimino: There you go.
Jordan: your take and your spin.
Don't copy paste, please.
Dane Disimino: Yeah. Just everybody's gonna leave this podcast and start plagiarizing all those newsletters now.
Jordan: Well, well definitely didn't, you know, hear it, hear it from us. So
Dane Disimino: No, no disclaimer. They didn't read the disclaimer up front.
Jordan: that's
Dane Disimino: Well, yeah.
Jordan: a company, please, nice, and I stress [00:57:00] this from content, from the content side, sync with product sync with sales, and no, no, no, byproduct. And study the demo. Get those dummy, dummy demos. Play around with them. Know what works, know what doesn't work. This way when you write, it means something.
Dane Disimino: Gotcha. Yeah, that, that alignment there is, is key. Well that'll be something we pick up. If you agree, we'll do this again some time and maybe dive into to that some more. That'll be awesome, Jordan.
Jordan: Love
Dane Disimino: but yeah. Cool. Well thanks so much for your time. I hope everybody enjoyed this conversation. Again, check out Jordan there on LinkedIn and all the great stuff he's posting.
But yeah, Jordan, thanks so much.
Jordan: I appreciate it, Dane. Thanks so much.
Dane Disimino: Bye.
Jordan: Bye-Bye.
Well that does it for this episode of the Cyber PMM Podcast. If you found this episode valuable, please subscribe, leave a comment or review, and let's connect on LinkedIn.
Be sure to check out cyber pmm.com for more resources, and you can also [00:58:00] subscribe to the cyber PMM newsletter on substack and LinkedIn to keep up to speed with everything you need to fight digital chaos, cut through the hype and do more with less. See you next time.
Share this post